Full Transmission Check

[carlile92]

So heeding the advice of my mechanic I went to the most reputable trans shop in town to have it fully checked and see if fluid and filter change would be good. So first things first he pops the hood checks the fluid and says not bad kinda old but good plugs in the computer and zero codes throughout the whole system yayayayyayayay takes it for a ride says its great.. then I ask about fluid and ask what he thinks of amsoil atf he said he does not use and will not use unless requested due to it being fully synthetic and it causing leaks in older cars. And before Scott has a heart attack he said it great stuff just in older cars its to thin and also he said that the fluid Toyota uses is absolute junk from the factory.

Also this shop will not even agree to fluid and filter change unless they check it first and if your fluid is burnt they will not change it because like the old saying goes it blows right after
You do. And for all interested in the name of this shop it is interstate transmission on auburn street in auburn mass there reviews are nothing but good even having people say couldn't be happier breaking down in auburn because how good there service is.they have also helped me in the past on my 96 Concorde that blew a trans they were completely up front and told me that its not worth it and also have the contract with the town of auburn for all there trans work.

I like there approach so I scheduled an appointment for next Thursday.

P.s also I asked about the pumps they use to do it he grimaced and said no no no no no no they do not not use any such kind of a pump and that it is bad for cars and starts pushing fluid were it doesn't belong

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

carlile92- That gentleman doesn't know that synthetic lubricants are no thinner or thicker than petroleum lubricants. For example, a 10W-30 viscosity is a 10W-30 viscosity and is no thinner or thicker than petroleum oils. He may know how to install transmissions and turn wrenches like an expert, but he clearly doesn't know much about lubricants.

Toyota transmission fluid is not junk, or Toyota wouldn't be using it. That's just an incredible comment. For anyone to say such a thing...well, if it were me, I'd go somewhere else.

Sure sounds to me like he doesn't want you to use my cutting edge technology, world class leading AMSOIL synthetic ATF or Toyota ATF, but the stuff he has on the shelf instead.

Golly gee, I wonder why he'd do that? :thumbdown::blink::laughing:

Synthetic oils or transmission fluids do not cause leaks. Period.

Will synthetic motor oils cause engines to leak oil?

Answer: No. Synthetic oils do not cause engines to leak oil. In fact, AMSOIL synthetic motor oil is fully compatible with modern seal materials and is properly formulated to condition seals, keeping them pliable to prevent leakage.

Not using the world leading AMSOIL synthetic ATF in your transmission but instead some off the shelf, run of the mill ATF would be a bad choice for your expensive transmission.

Give me a call any time and I can assist you with the facts.:thumbsup: What you were told is not correct, at all.

 

[carlile92]

Scott sometimes the lab is not everything thing real life changes things an old trans that starts using new full of detergents which is mostly what trans fluid is am soil has way to many cleaning agents and it causes stuff to come loose clog the filter and impede flow and so you know Scott my type trans has no filter just a metal screen and he was much more in depth than I wrote out and went through the reasons why I was talking to him for over an hour. And he is not using the the shelf stuff I'm bringing my own fluid which is what I will be researching the newer oils are formulated with newer cars in mind not 97. He has books of satisfied customer ranked a with BBB been in business 20 plus years no bad reviews anywhere and yes its true synthetic molecules are smaller in synthetic oils which is what allow for amazing performance but for a 97 with older seals I would rather not chance it and instead go with something else he backs up his work and is not hungry for money there were at least 15 cars waiting to be worked on one being a town police car

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

So first things first he pops the hood checks the fluid and says not bad kinda old but good

There is no way to conclude if ATF is good or not, or how old it is or not, just by looking at it. Visually, the viscosity can't be checked, the additive package can't be checked, any contaminants can't be checked. To do this requires the services of an oil analysis laboratory using multimillion dollars worth of equipment.

If the fluid is burnt, or black as ink, then yes. Otherwise no.

I have over 30 years experience in the automotive repair/maintenance industry and synthetic oil industry. It is very likely I have many more years of experience than the person who provided that incorrect information to you.

On a side note, whether it is worth it or not to repair a vehicle/transmission, isn't just determined by the value of the vehicle vs. the cost of the repair. It's the cost per mile of traveling down the road.

If a vehicle needs say $1,500 worth of repairs but the value of the vehicle is only $1,000, is it worth it to repair the vehicle? It certainly can be. As long as the vehicle is not a pile of junk, the 1/4 panels are not so rusted out the we can see into the trunk, etc., it can be a very financially wise decision to repair that older car because if we don't, then we have to replace that older car with a newer one, which can cost us thousands of dollars more. Plus, then we have to start the repair/maintenance routine all over again with the replacement car.

I had a 1989 Buick Park Ave that finally had the original weak GM transmission give up the ghost at 267,000 miles. The transmission was able to last that long thanks to the AMSOIL synthetic ATF I installed in it. I've never heard of any automatic transmission going that far before without needing a rebuild. By the way, there were no transmission fluid leaks in all those 267,000 miles. :thumbsup:

To rebuild the transmission was $2,000. The car wasn't worth that much, but it was in good shape. I had the rebuild done and that car is still on the road today with over 300,000 miles on it and the original Buick 3.8 litre V-6 engine still humming along using AMSOIL synthetic motor oil! :thumbsup:

 

[carlile92]

I don't believe a lab test will always be 100% just because it may work on some does not mean all.

 

[carlile92]

And goes what you used that a lot earlier on in the life of that car than me this car was 17 before i t came to me and no Scott this guy has actually been in the business for 52 years and owned the shop for most of it he's 73 not some young guy and has more experience with transmissions than you ever thought of having has his certifications and his employees certs all hanging in plain sight who am I to believe him or this guy on the internet trying to sell me his product hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

carlile82 - There's no other way to say this than, what you were told is 100%, flat-out wrong. I'm not saying they are dishonest. I'm saying they are wrong.

No, synthetic oil molecules are not smaller than petroleum molecules.

Petroleum oil molecules are a hodgepodge of random sized molecules, some large, some medium, some very small and smaller than synthetic lubricant molecules. These random sized molecules are at the very heart of why petroleum lubricants perform so comparatively poorly vs. high technology synthetic lubricants. The small petroleum molecules evaporate or burn off at high temperatures causing deposits, sludge and varnish. Not desirable for any equipment. The sludge, varnish and deposits serve as a blanket of insulation and cause engine temperatures to increase, causing even more petroleum oils sludge, varnish and deposits. It's a vicious circle.

The large petroleum molecules congeal in the cold, causing hard starting in cold winter temperatures, poor lubrication and increased engine wear. Again, not desirable.

Conversely, true synthetic lubricants have molecules that are all the same size. This provides enormous benefits for the equipment it is used in because being uniform in size, they are very resistant to high temperatures and don't volatize, or burn off like petroleum oils do. In cold winter use, the molecules don't congeal, or become thicker, with the very desirable result being much easier cold winter engine starts, superior lubrication, reduced engine wear and improved fuel economy. Cold winter engine start tests have shown that up to 40% of all engine wear is caused by using a petroleum oil in cold winter conditions. So simply using a quality synthetic oil like AMSOIL can reduce 40% of engine wear. Not a bad deal! :thumbsup:

AMSOIL synthetic transmission fluids also help reduce transmission heat and heat is the #1 killer of automatic transmissions. Using an infrared temperature gun, I have documented over 45 deg. F. temperature reductions using AMSOIL synthetics. :thumbsup: This temperature reduction is achieved by a reduction in friction and also because PAO synthetic lubricants have the very desirable characteristic of having a turbulent flow pattern which, "scoops", heat away from hot metal parts to be dispersed. Conversely, petroleum based lubricants have a laminar flow pattern and this can actually cause temperatures to increase.

For me, I really enjoy helping people with their cars and I think all the posts I've made in this great forum are evidence to that. It gives me a good feeling to know I've helped someone with something so important as the car they need to get back and forth every day to work, or the grocery store, or pick up their kids at school, etc. That's pretty darned important.

I honestly care about people and in this day and age, I know that might be difficult to believe. But what matters to me most is helping people and that's impossible to do if I'm lying to people. Customer service is priority #1 with me and always has been. Take care of the customer, don't lie, cheat or steal and the rest takes care of itself. This is why I'm one of the best in the nation at what I do and I tell you there is no replacing the feeling it provides you when an old customer of mine that I hadn't seen in years from a previous auto center I used to run, walks up to me in public shakes my hand and says, "Hey, you helped me out with my car years ago and I wanted to say I really appreciate what you did for me", etc.

I don't lie, cheat or steal. Period.

If I provide advice to you, you can take it to the bank that it's rock solid. If I don't know, I don't know and I would never provide incorrect or bad advice.

Here is a wonderful article for you that is the best article I've ever read on synthetic lubricants and why they are so vastly superior to old school petroleum lubricants. It documents everything I've said to you here. Enjoy. :thumbsup:

Synthetic Oil: Rx for Long Engine Life - by Curt Scott

http://getahelmet.com/jeeps/tech/syntheticoil/

 

[carlile92]

Also Scott he was right when he said kinda old the fluid was last changed on 7/6/2009 but does not tell what kind of fluid just tells me how many miles and date he did not know this at all. Like in every other trade there are things the older guys know about that we don't.

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

I don't believe a lab test will always be 100% just because it may work on some does not mean all.

Between a respected oil analysis laboratory with highly educated laboratory oil analysis technicians using multimillion dollars worth of equipment vs. an untrained individual doing some kind of visual inspection, personally I'll take the oil analysis laboratory every time. :thumbsup::yes:

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

Carlile - I'm trying to do you a favor. I'm sharing my experience and knowledge with you so you can benefit from that. I don't make one red penny of retail profit here from any Corolla Forum member and if any of my customers happen to be reading this, they can attest to that fact.

I am an older guy. That's what happens after 30+ years in the business.:thumbsup:

But this older guy keeps an open mind, does constant reading and educating myself on the topic of the automotive industry. I strive to keep an open mind so I can learn new things, instead of subscribing to old wives tales.

Hey, if you want to take incorrect advice as the truth, feel free. It's your car. I'm trying to help you, but clearly you don't see that. I tried.

Good luck.

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

Tell ya what Carlile, you think I'm not telling you the truth, (rather insulting), so call the experts and discuss this technical topic with them -

AMSOIL Technical Services Department -> 1-715-399-8324

Mobil 1 Technical Services Department -> 1-800-662-4525

Red Line Technical Services Department -> 1-800-624-7958.

Ask any of them if their synthetic transmission fluids cause leaks. Ask them if synthetic oil molecules are smaller than petroleum molecules, all the old wives tales you've been told, etc.

You'll get reams of technical information on synthetic lubricants, the same information I've known for decades.


AMSOIL pioneered the industry with the worlds first 100% synthetic ATF over 30 years ago. I think, (not sure), that Exxon/Mobil was next and then Red Line. They are all very good quality synthetic ATF's that don't cause leaks.

Use any synthetic ATF you feel is best. It's all up to you. But don't take old wives tales as fact and actually pay to have petroleum ATF :sick: installed in your expensive transmission.

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

This is what happens to automatic transmissions as temperatures increase. Using a quality synthetic ATF can reduce those temperatures and also be much more resistant to high temperatures than a petroleum ATF. As the chart below shows, this can greatly extend transmission life.

How much is your transmission worth?

What vested interest might a transmission repair shop have in recommending petroleum ATF's?

 

[carlile92]

I'm not sending my fluid to a lab and pay to test it when I know it should be changed its 60k plus old so why waste money when you know the answer. The trans tech was not saying that if I used it that would leak he is saying that older cars have a tendency to leak and the fluid cleans it way to much and stuff ends up clogging filters which this unit doesn't use but I would rather be safe than sorry they would put am soil in and warranty it but just recommended against it and with his experience I'm inclined to lean his way and remember I'm bringing my own fluid

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

My point is not in sending a sample of ATF to a laboratory to have it tested. My point is that merely a visual inspection and stating the fluid is good, or old, or whatever, (unless it is burned and black as ink), is simply not valid. This is why, in some states an auto center recommending a transmission fluid change based on merely the appearance of the fluid is illegal.

It would be tantamount to a Doctor taking a blood sample from you, looking at it and saying, "Yup, it looks good, but its old".

The reason an older automatic transmission can fail when a fluid change is completed, is not due to the type of transmission fluid, but the deposits that are inside the transmission being cleaned out by the fresh transmission fluid. This then plugs up the filter/screen, transmission fluid flow is restricted and this can lead to catastrophic transmission failure.

If the motorist simply leaves the transmission alone and doesn't change the fluid, the transmission is going to fail anyway because of deteriorated/worn out fluid. So what does one do?

Change the filter/screen/clean it after having the transmission fluid change performed, at least once, if not twice.

Here is a bulletin from the Filter Manufacturers Council that discusses this in detail -

Bulletin From Filter Manufacturers Council (16k PDF)

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

Just to let you know Carlile, I cancelled an important appointment I had today in order to stay here and try to help you out. I'm also late picking up my fiance from her job. If you were closer to me, I'd change your transmission fluid for you at no labor charge, as I do with all my customers.

I'm not some dishonest, "guy on the Internet", as you've insinuated. :thumbsup:

If you had any idea of the massive amount of time I spend on this forum trying to help people with their cars, improve the forum and help it grow, it would make your head spin. In the past several days, I've easily spent over 20 hours here. So I really don't appreciate the negative comments.

 

[carlile92]

Scott that is what I said the problem can be that the amsoil is to good and I don't want to take a chance having that happen. The trans has no codes for anything I'm sure that a high quality atf with right certs will do fine

It is not a race car don't always have to protect like it is I'm extremely easy on this trans because it has very weak power so no need to try to fly and I always lock out my o/d on hills to prevent hunting and use parking brake and don't treat it bad at all.

If you remember Scott I was set on using your fluid but my gut just tells me to trust the guy he has nothing to gain by lieing just giving me his outlook from a long time in the business

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

It has nothing at all to do with any AFT being, "too good". There are no drawbacks associated with any lubricant being superior.

He's not lying.

He's wrong,as every source I have given quoted has proven.

Don't trust people who are wrong.

That's just not logical.

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

We can lead a horse to water...

 

[Kev250R]

Personally I'd be leary of any shop which told me Toyota ATF wasn't any good. Toyota's have some problem areas but I rarely hear of a trans failing in any Toyota models.

As far as what ATF to use, that's your choice obviously. Personally I'm getting ready to give Amsoil engine oil a try in my 4x4 which has 200K hard miles on it and no oil leaks. If any leaks develop I'll mention it but from what I've been reading I'm not worried about it.

Kevin

 

[carlile92]

You guys are focusing on leaks only if I put amsoil in and there ends up being debris of some sort and the amsoil unclogs it due to it superior performance and it clogs the screen were does that leave me I have had a transmission go on me with great looking fluid the thing is if you keep good trans fluid in there even if its not amsoil I bet it will last just as long how many cars go over 300k on suptech Walmart oil.

Lastly how many transmissions have you replaced worked on etc just leaning with my gut go look up some of the reviews and history for the business before you say its shady

 

[Scott O'Kashan]

Carlile - As the bulletin from the Filter Manufacturers Council I shared with you states, that most likely will happen, regardless of what type or brand of transmission fluid is used. You don't seem to understand this, or somehow I'm not explaining it very well. I'm sorry. I'll try again.

With an expensive transmission, it might be better to rely on documented facts and science than a gut.

Please click on the link below and read that bulletin regarding this issue. It does not matter which type or brand of transmission fluid is used, as they all will flush out the transmission of deposits, potentially plugging the filter or screen, with the result being catastrophic transmission failure. Again, to correct this the filter or screen should be changed or cleaned several times after the transmission fluid change. Your local transmission fellow isn't relaying this critical information to you, but I am, hopefully so you're expensive transmission will not fail. That darned, "some guy on the Internet" again! :thumbsup:


Bulletin From Filter Manufacturers Council (16k PDF)

No, cheapo petroleum based transmission fluid will not provide even close to the same protection as a quality synthetic transmission fluid will. Again, see below. Are you even reading my the information I'm providing you? It seems we're going in circles here.

This is what happens to automatic transmissions as temperatures increase. Using a quality synthetic ATF can reduce those temperatures and also be much more resistant to high temperatures than a petroleum ATF. As the chart below shows, this can greatly extend transmission life.

How much is your transmission worth?

What vested interest might a transmission repair shop have in recommending petroleum ATF's?

 

[carlile92]

Okay Scott I've been looking for fluid comparing it to amsoil and honestly none of them have the specs I'm happy with and I've found a couple of corolla owners that have said they switched to amsoil at and the difference was substantial. I'm going to have to go with it please send me the price one more time.

Like I said I've done my research and at first was leaning towards trans tech but when I can find other owners of same car to vouch for it I will keep the open mind