Most of us Probably have a "Recall" (CVT)

Discussion in '2014 + Toyota Corolla' started by jeremy_283, Apr 3, 2018.

  1. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

    Right, that's identical to the initial service campaign. It could also be that perhaps some dealerships didn't run the right tune, or have done it incorrectly which may have cause some other unwanted behavior. At this point its all speculation, who knows. I got my update and like I said unless it was placebo, car feels lighter on it's feet but who knows.
     
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  3. TitoV98

    TitoV98 New Member

    Thats crazy. I swear my car drives a lot smoother and its quieter when im going uphill and pushing the rpms. I guess we'll have to wait and see
     
    klebinek likes this.
  4. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

    Dude, mine too. Glad I got it while it was available. I literally went same day I read about it here.
     
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  5. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

    Watch the ones, myself included that got their update done have CVT failures. haha. knock on wood since I don't want it to happen considering the new cvts replacements aren't new, just refurbished. I bet you in the near future the'll be shops that refresh/refurbish cvts. There are kits being sold for this specific purpose for our model. They're doing it in Russia and other parts of the world. US is the only country that no longer repairs, if broke, replace and not just car technology but everything. Think about the negative impact this has from pollution perspective. I'm sure much of the metal would get recycled, refurbished in most cases but same can't be said about plastic and a lot of crap gets made out of plastic/polymers these days. Why didn't they make those fake Dubai world islands from plastic bottle patch that's floating in the pacific somewhere? Not only that sand erodes but a good tsunami and they're gone. Why not reuse plastic and anchor it down good? I know, because rich sobs wouldn't like that, it doesn't go with the desert sandbox theme they got going on over there. How about plastic bottles filled with sand? Not picking on dubai though, just saying.
     
  6. Sam.s

    Sam.s New Member

    My dealer just called me to cancel my appointment , the person who called to tell me said that the remedy they had thought was to correct the issue isnt affective . So they retracted the recall till further notice.
     
    TheDrainnoodle and klebinek like this.
  7. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

    I wonder if it isn't effective on some trims or all. For instance mine's an LE so no paddle shifters like on the S. Not even sure if Eco has paddle shifters and if all cvt transmissions are mapped exactly the same? So if they said the update isn't effective, does that mean our cvts are continuing to wear prematurely since they haven't denied that part correct? Are they still acknowledging that the issue is there and service campaign still in effect? Are they working on another fix?
     
  8. TitoV98

    TitoV98 New Member

    So will the ones who got the update be recieving a call from the dealer? Will they tell us that the update was faulty or will they hide that too?
     
  9. howlinwolf

    howlinwolf New Member

    My appointment for Tuesday was cancelled today as well. When I asked why they said they have no idea why but assume something was going wrong with the cars that was updated already or just the update was wrong.
     
  10. shmeaty

    shmeaty New Member

    I had my appt on 4/9/18; it took about an hour for them to update it. My car definitely drives slower when you try to accelerate from a red light. It’s almost like it is handicapped when I launch from a stop, so I’m sure my 0-60 is slower. It does shift smoother though. I’m in Utah so 80 is the freeway speed and it feels much smoother getting up to that. Hopefully the update works, I’ll have to stay tuned to see if they push out another one since it was suspended.
     
  11. TitoV98

    TitoV98 New Member

    Yours slowed down and i feel like mine is a lot faster lol
     
  12. Izzy

    Izzy New Member

    Mine accelerated faster and runs smoother after the update
     
  13. jolly

    jolly New Member

    As far as incriminating itself, it’s already done… especially since the outlook could turn sour from now. Even if by any luck the issue ends up not being a big deal. All of a sudden, that’s already two strikes for some owners (the issue, and the apparently wrong correction). Either the remedy update is bugged itself, or the diagnostic was wrong in the first place. Not good, especially about an almost 8 years old design. Troubled CVTs from other manufacturers were quickly spotted and identified…

    Interestingly, although my VIN is clear, dealer told me that a) the situation could change and b) they don’t take appointments yet and probably not before a month. I wonder if Toyota might be in the process of “upgrading” the status of “service campaign” to official “recall” (NHTSA).In any event, they sure lack the transparency they promised after their 1 billion+ fine for the unintended acceleration quid pro quo.

    On the other hand, I have to say that my Corolla has been trouble-free (well, except for the Valvematic update campaign) for 4½ years and with the lowest maintenance cost. No other brands have given me that before. Fingers crossed !
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
    rawl likes this.
  14. Tony Mora

    Tony Mora New Member

    As far as the re-programming for the CVT-S goes for me it was done during routine maintenance under 50 minutes and I did notice a huge diference in the trasmision with a lot less cycling and slippage and more noticeable pep to it. I have the 2016 S Plus model.
     
    klebinek likes this.
  15. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

    If I was to sum it up now that I’ve been driving on the new tune for a week is that cvt is more efficient. My mpg keeps improving a bit as well. As long as you don’t floor it and stay around eco zone, acceleration is more effortless which allows me to stay in eco without trying too hard with decent acceleration. If this thing lasts I have no complaints thus far.
     
    Tony Mora likes this.
  16. 3ddie @rana

    3ddie @rana New Member

    Good Morning RollAdicts

    Drove down to Dealer 28 miles to be there by 7:00am for them to tell me that,
    Toyota has suspended there RECALL on ALL Corollas TILL Further NOTICE, they dont know whats UP !
    LOL
    Is this CRAP or what ?!
    I have an issue w this, my issue is that if you need a service done on the Vehicle, they sure get on youre @$$ about it but they could have email me to let me that the RECALL has been suspended !
    Shame on THEM !


    Eddie A.
     
  17. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

    Hey 3ddie, that sucks man. HOpefully they'll issue an update of some sort soon.
     
  18. beach bum

    beach bum New Member

    I went to my Toyota dealer today 04/17/18 for free routine service, and I was told that the JOD was suspended last Friday 04/13/18. The manager told me that the "fix" isn't working and Toyota has put a temporary suspension on until they find a remedy to the problem and to be patient.
     
  19. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

    I don't know if it's working or not but I can tell a real difference in the way CVT operates since I got it. Regardless of what their intentions were, this is how the CVT should have operated from the start so no idea why they've cancelled it. I'm curious of what the future holds in regards to this particular deal.
     
  20. two-if-by-sea

    two-if-by-sea New Member

    This totally sux. Scheduled this recall weeks ago, and I took a day off work today to have this recall done. Got there bright and early today, 7:45AM, and was told, "Recall suspended". WTF. I'm a down homer, grew up in a Chevy family. Took me a lot of years to find Toyota's and I'm their biggest fan. That said, i've had nothing but bad luck with their service departments. I do most of my own service. Its a good thing Toyota's don't need much service. I told the service guy today, exactly what I thought about the situation. It's possible I'm no longer welcome in this dealership again. But that's okay, they know how I feel about the situation. This is what I would expect from a GM recall, Toyota is so much better than this.
     
  21. mcp123

    mcp123 New Member

    Called my dealer today and their response was that the recall wasn't actually fixing the issue at hand. Hopefully it's nothing major and they can get a new recall out shortly. I'm still at low miles so I'm not too worried about it.

    Has there been a history of these CVT's going down prematurely?
     
  22. mcp123

    mcp123 New Member

    Called my dealer today and their response was that the recall wasn't actually fixing the issue at hand. Hopefully it's nothing major and they can get a new recall out shortly. I'm still at low miles so I'm not too worried about it.

    Has there been a history of these CVT's going down prematurely?
     
  23. jolly

    jolly New Member

    That's poor service, to say the least. My dealer always confirm appointments by phone the evening before... Anyway, a few weeks ago, dealer told me that even though there was no recall/service campaign for my car yet, it could change. And it did. I've received the letter. The campaign seem to be going on in Canada, but in batches (not all of us received the letter at the same time) which has me wondered if the problem might be in the way it's handled in the US (1.5 million cars at the same time vs batches in Canada), rather than the fix itself. Or, as mentioned before, maybe it has to do with versions of the CVT firmware (LE, LE Eco, S, S+/Premium).
     
    Tony Mora likes this.
  24. qqbargains

    qqbargains New Member

    I went to dealer last week, they told me the same thing which recall update CVT firmware is suspended. I have the scanner cheap mini-vci J2534 running TIS. It does detect the error code P1585 which is acceleration sensor circuit relate to JoD recall. I don't know why toyota has suspended the recall, may be need to pay too much labor on it. I purchased this car in 2015, once I were driving it for 2 month, I already feel it kind of slip and jerky rough specially winter time.
     

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  25. TitoV98

    TitoV98 New Member

    They just plug it into a computer and re-program it so i dont think labor is the issue. I havent noticed any negative effects from the update so I'm not sure why it was suspended
     
  26. fiberops

    fiberops New Member

    I just called my dealer and they said that their isn't any parts or services for the recall. They gave me the Toyota Recall Center #1-800-331-4331 . Business hours M-F 7AM-7PM CT & Weekends 7AM-4PM CT
     
  27. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

  28. 15BlueRolla

    15BlueRolla New Member

    You don’t need to change the fluid in CVT’s. But who doesn’t want to maintain their car? The fluid is lifetime btw.
     
  29. 15BlueRolla

    15BlueRolla New Member

    They haven’t told us anything yet. We were doing the updates for about a week till Toyota told us to stop updating them. I’m sure they are coming up with another update.
     
  30. 15BlueRolla

    15BlueRolla New Member

    That code is not related to the recall and labor is not the issue. It’s just suspended till further notice.
     
  31. Rock'n Roller

    Rock'n Roller New Member

    Oh boy.... I had the service campaign update done, then I read this from the above posted link. A time bomb waiting to happen. Great! Thanks, Toyota. Now I need to call the dealer and see if they can remove CVT s/w update and reinstall the previous s/w version. More fun.

    Toyota attempted to utilize a software update as the “remedy” for the CVT defect in affected Corollas instead of replacing hardware. Almost immediately problems with the software update “remedy” became apparent. The CVTs in affected Corollas began failing and experiencing a “reduction of speed” after receiving the software update “remedy”.
     
  32. 15BlueRolla

    15BlueRolla New Member

    Can’t undo a update. But unless you are having issues, you should be fine.
     
  33. klebinek

    klebinek New Member

    I’m also not having any issues and it’s been around 10k miles since the update. I’m around 50k now and what annoys me is the fact that there is so much controversial information on k313 cvt transmission. I don’t like living in uncertainty if down the line I’ll have to spend thousands on something that could have been avoided by a legitimate recall and fix instead of playing these games with customers. Toyota corporate isn’t on the same page with the dealerships which leads to lack of communication with customers. Most owners bought this car with reliability in mind. The way they’re handling this mess makes me want to trade this car in before warranty expires.
     
  34. ZeCorolla

    ZeCorolla I Love Corolla's!

    I wouldn't put my full trust on that website. Seems like they just pump out a random worrying article every few weeks to get views or a reaction. They don't even state where or who has said that the update causes the CVT's to fail. As for now, if you don't notice your transmission acting odd or feeling like it is damaged, don't worry about it. If something does fail within the CVT, you have proof that Toyota tampered with your transmission and it should be covered. I assume you are also under warranty as well.
     
  35. TitoV98

    TitoV98 New Member

    Ive put almost 15k since the update with no issues at all. I think it actually enhanced the performance of mine. Has there been a case with the cvt failing because of the update?
     
  36. jolly

    jolly New Member

    Dubious source indeed… Anonymous author, anonymous alleged cases, all oddly consistent with a lawsuit against Toyota from an ex-dealer who lost his license for suspect warranty claims and property investments who argue that he was only defending consumers. Another bug is claiming that the problem is hardware, not firmware, without identifying it.

    Furthermore, some documents cited seem to confirm that Toyota has asked its dealers NOT to perform the firmware upgrade UNTIL customer receive a letter, which is exactly how it works in Canada, where the campaign is still going on (without a bunch of Corolla then stalling along the road). You have to wait your turn until you receive a letter. It is not hiding, it is managing.
     
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  37. Rock'n Roller

    Rock'n Roller New Member

    Sure, I won't disagree with some of the points, but the underlying issue is that the campaign was abruptly stopped and Toyota has not officially stated why, nor will Toyota customer service or the dealer comment. I've been an engineer for over 30 years, and technically speaking this entire scenario makes absolutely no sense. Many have speculated on reasons why. In my opinion, Toyota has somehow botched this campaign. Either this update did not fix the original problem, or it has created a new problem, or both. Whatever the case, Toyota must of had a valid justification to suspend it. We as consumers will never know. Recall letters are only issued for safety events, as required by the NHTSA in the U.S. This issue was categorized as a campaign (no safety impact), therefore no letter would be issued in the U.S. I'm sure the laws differ in other countries.
     
    klebinek likes this.
  38. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    It's odd that the 2018s were not included, yet have the same part number. I just bought a 2018 LE. :(
     
  39. 15BlueRolla

    15BlueRolla New Member

    Part number for what?
     
  40. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    I've read that the part number for the CVT in the 2018 is the same as in the 2017.
     
  41. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    My guess is that there isn't a software fix possible. That the issue is hardware and therefore very very expensive to fix. So they will have to be forced to do so. And somebody is going to have to die on a busy Expressway before they get forced.
     
  42. 15BlueRolla

    15BlueRolla New Member

    Not really. It just goes into limp mode.
     
  43. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    Well, that can be very bad:

    https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/TOYOTA/COROLLA/4%2520DR/FWD#complaints420

    scroll down, click on VEHICAL SPEED CONTROL, look for "
    NHTSA ID Number: 11088606"

    I wouldn't want to be in that situation!

    Interestingly enough, the Toyota document gives an end date to the production of affected vehicles:

    https://toyotatalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/OrgJ0D.pdf

    Model Model Years Production Period
    Toyota Corolla 2014 – 2017 Late April 2013 – Late July 2017
    Toyota Corolla iM 2017 Mid-March 2016 – Mid-June 2017
    Scion iM 2016 Early February 2015 – Early August 2016

    (ETA: Dammit, the site screwed up formatting I tried to do with spaces.)

    So, the big question for me and my 2018 Corolla LE: Would any cars for Model Year 2018 have been built before Late July 2017? It's interesting that model year 2018 is NOT included. If it's an unsolved software issue, how could that be?

     
  44. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    OK, this time with a useable format:
     

    Attached Files:

  45. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    Actually, those anonymous cases are from the NHTSA.gov website.
     
  46. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    The Corolla CVT issue is Toyota's JOD (or possibly J0D - in some fonts, who knows?). That article - https://toyotatalk.com/corolla-defects/ - mentions no lawsuit, nor southern california dealer.

    The article citing a Southern California dealer (who does have a lawsuit) - https://toyotatalk.com/toyota-prius-hybrid-inverter/ - is about Toyota's E0E Recall - this deals with parts of inverters in Toyota Prius vehicles. And frankly, that article seems to make a pretty good case that the software fix failed, and Toyota ended up with a new part number for a new physical part to address the affected part of the inverters. But then that article starts making comparisons with the handling of a 3rd issue - unintended acceleration - in order to try and demonstrate a pattern of, shall we say, minimization on Toyota's part.
     
  47. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    A little further examination shows that my Corolla - the one I care most about - was made in April of 2018. So, theoretically, out of the window of bad production. Except: does the lack of inclusion of 2018 model year really reflect that 2018s are free of the problem - or did Toyota just not mention them, because when it issued the notice in March 2018, it hadn't made any, yet - or none of them had failed yet? I'm unsure - I seem to recall that next year's models come out this fall, or earlier, so by March 2018, some 2018s would have had to have been made.
     
  48. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    I think we can all agree with that.
     
  49. Dante

    Dante New Member

    I went to the dealer and told them about it and they said they won’t update my ecu because the campaign has ended! Because they thought they had resolved the issue but they haven’t completed the update yet.
     
  50. jolly

    jolly New Member

    Definitely a possibility… but do we know enough facts to be affirmative? Besides, it could be hardware and still be – or not – managed by software (see Civic’s bad pulley material). It could also be software ending up in hardware damage (see Nissan’s fluid temp management).

    The thing is in both those examples, complaints on forums, NHTSA and medias were numerous and soon specific enough to identify the cause. This case is puzzling because not much transpires despite millions of units on the road worldwide over the last 10 years (with only firmware varying according to areas). And because, as I said, the campaign is still going on in Canada.

    Also, what’s the nature and extent of the alleged bug in the software remedy? Does it affects all “fixed” vehicles (obviously not), only those with CVTs already damaged by the problem – those are replaced by the way – or is the bug related to the general management of the car or the specific problem identified ? In all probability, 2018 were produced with the new software, for better or worst.

    Also of interest is the fact that during the covered period (2014-2017) Toyota day to day management of recalls/campaign was under judicial monitorizing after the sudden acceleration debacle.

    It’s not in the article, it’s the site itself. Too coincidental and very scarce, oriented infos. The article on the Prius better be convincing, with two safety recalls on the matter (worldwide, by the way, which shows how the current NA Corolla’s CVT is odd). Still, it manage to cite facts that anyone can find on forums, or as you point, the NHTSA site.

    So it shows that NHTSA is monitoring the Corolla situation. One difference is that Prius or Civic CVT were “safety recalls” because the car could stop suddenly. So far, if/when the problem manifest itself, the Corolla enters into limp mode, which is different, another fact the article avoid.

    So my point is maybe there is a major and wide spread problem or maybe not (and I wouldn’t yet discard a logistic problem of updating a large number of cars) but I don't know any new facts than what I haven't seen in forums after reading this article. Time to worry ? Yes. Time to panic ? No ! Actually, if my CVT was to go, I sure wouldn’t be happy but this car (which was my first Toyota) would still be the only one of many brands to have run trouble-free and with low maintenance cost for almost 5 years now (exceptions being the firmware updates for Valvematic and now CVT, with the car going flawless both before and after).

    The law is the same in Canada. No mandatory letters (or email or phone call) for a campaign but they do it anyway. If they wouldn't advise customers, it wouldn't be a "campaign", but a TSB. My direct experience is that's the policy of others manufacturers in Canada also. I don't know about Toyota US, but there is an indication in one document of the article : "Toyota has not yet sent owner notifications about Special Service CampaignJ0D. Toyota will notify owners when J0D is no longer suspended."
     
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  51. george.stark

    george.stark New Member

    In the sentence prior to the one you quoted, I said "My guess is...". I don't know affirmatively - but it is a theory that explains at least some of the facts

    Who says the cause hasn't been identified? It just hasn't been disclosed - maybe.

    The part about Canada - that part is hard to account for in my guess that it is a hardware issue, unfixable by software. Is the software fix working, or is it just window-dressing? I guess we'll know when reports of post-J0D-fix CVT failures do, or do not, appear.

    Yes it is indeed very odd.


    The report I quoted involved the car stopping - how "suddenly" it was can be debated, but is was sudden enough to be terrifying for the people in involved. I seem to recall reading of another incident where the affected car was rear ended, with serious injuries to the driver - though I'm not going to try to find the source of that right now. It's late for me.


    It seems to be taking a pretty long time. And why isn't it suspended in Canada? Toyota is not being forthcoming on this.
     

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